Booker T. Mattison. Filmmaker. Novelist. Screenwriter. Professor. Want to know more about Mattison? Read The Interview.

TDR:    Who named you “Booker T.” and why?

BM:     My father’s best friend is named Booker T., and dad and his friends called him “BT”. They were very close. BT was killed in a car wreck; so, when I was born, he and mom gave me the name to honor his memory.

TDR:    Your parents are from South Carolina. You spent summers there. A summer’s vacation with southern relatives is a common right-of-passage for many African American children. What were your summer experiences like in contrast to living in the big city?

I am a hyper-sensory person, so I am really plugged into how things feel, taste, and smell.

BM:     Actually being on the family land in Williamston—which is considered “the country”—well, my grandfather owned a huge amount of land there. I know the history of the people to whom he sold the land … just knowing that the entire area was all owned by my grandfather—just knowing my history and having a street named for the Mattison family name gave me an incredible sense of self. The people who came before me did incredible things—even my family. It is an awesome feeling.

TDR:    Your writerly voice is impressive. Let me read the opening lines from your novels, published by Revell in 2009 and 2011 respectively.

Unsigned Hype:

Somebody’s banging on my front door and it’s rocking the house harder than the beat I’m laying down in my bedroom.

 Now, from your novel Snitch:

It’s cold tonight. So cold that if you listen hard enough, you can hear the ice that’s wedged in the cracks in the street expand and make greater fissures.

These are very visual openings. They sound. They move.

BM:     I’m a hyper-sensory person, so I am really plugged into how things feel, taste, and smell. It gives life to my voice as an artist. You mentioned “hearing” sound in those lines, well sound is so important in how I describe experiences. While at Tisch [School of the Arts], I lived in the metropolis of New York, so I listened and watched how the city functions in the seasons.

TDR:    What contributed to your hyper-sensory perception?

BM:     It comes from being an artist and wanting to communicate with the world in any way that I can. Most of the artists I know are in tune with the senses and what is going on around them. We are aware of the affect our experiences have/had on us.

TDR:    How do you move into telling your story on the white page? What does literature do for you as a storyteller?

BM:     The dilemma of the blank page is terrifying. I do not enjoy writing—the process to get to a draft is not pleasant. This is a recent development for me that happened last spring in a creative writing class. I learned in that class, however, that it does not matter what you write, you can’t even make it great until you write it first; it doesn’t matter if it is bad … horrible.

Directing is probably … the easiest for me to do because as a director, it enables me to traffic in all of my gifts …

TDR:    As a creative writer myself, I’d like to know how do you manage the writer’s fear as you move to write on the white page?

BM:     Literature for me is fuel—knowing that when I write a product from my efforts will emerge. Really, writers have to remove the critical brain because it has no place until there is something on the white page to criticize. The rewriting … the editing … these are where and when the gems appear.

TDR:    When did stories matter to you?

BM:     I’ve always had stories in my head and worlds I wanted to shape, mold, and create. I wrote a novel when I was 9 but I did not realize it. I had characters but it was only later I was able to articulate exactly what I was doing.

TDR:    You are a novelist as well as a screenwriter as well as a filmmaker — three different media. Discuss the challenges you meet when approaching each genre. You’ve touched upon literature in the last question. Let’s continue with screenwriting …

BM:     The goal is the same for all genres: to tell a story. The novel is a complete art form. I write, edit, and publish—there it is … it is complete–done. Notice I said “I write” because in the strictest sense it is not collaborative until you interact with an editor. As for screenwriting, it is the blueprint for the film … it’s collaborative … a team usually is involved to get that story on the screen. The story will move and morph in very different ways. Personally, it is far more difficult writing for screen than writing a novel because it is the form of writing that I have done for the least amount of time. As I keep writing screenplays, however, I am finding that I am getting better at it.

TDR:    Film …

BM:     It’s incredible to create and watch a film I have made. Directing is probably out of the three — author/screenwriter/director — the easiest for me to do because as a director, it enables me to traffic in all of my gifts: storytelling, visual, creating characters and worlds, and it gives me tools that I do not have when writing a novel or screenplay …

TDR:    Specifically, what tools?

BM:     If I want to show intimacy or a tense situation, I can use the film form called the close-up. If I want to give the audience a full range of the environment wherein my story takes place, I can pull my camera back and show depth of field which gives the expanse of a setting. I can use lighting, color, and other visual effects to enhance the images onscreen. And sound … sound is fifty percent of the movie. I can use sound to horrify and to excite; to augment and intensify the sense of sight. In other words, I can direct the audience’s emotions through sound … Being able to capture tone, mood … it’s amazing!

My work encourages and uplifts by examining dark and disturbing aspects of who we are but providing triumphant and uplifting endings that builds people up … that offers hope at the end of the day.

TDR:    The Gilded Six Bits is a short story written by Harlem Renaissance novelist Zora Neale Hurston in 1933. In 2001, you produced a film short of the same name. What drew you to Hurston?

 BM:     An African American lit course at Norfolk State; it is a rare love story from the Harlem Renaissance. I found it refreshing to read something that wasn’t dealing exclusively with racism. Had she done what all of the other Harlem Renaissance writers were doing, a degree of her uniqueness would have been lost …

TDR:    In your opinion, what made Hurston stand apart from her Harlem Renaissance contemporaries or contributed to her “degree of uniqueness” you have mentioned?

BM:     The Gilded Six Bits is a love story set in the 1930s. Typically literature from that period … the focus is on the struggle against racism and oppression in the United States; but that was not Hurston’s voice. She tells us that racism was not the only concern among African American people. Hurston was very interested in the day-to-day life of African Americans—how they lived and interacted with each other. The story, in particular, has an emphasis on the relationship between a young married African American couple living in the south. She specifically focuses on how one couple would enact forgiveness after a betrayal.

Joe (Chad Coleman) and Missy Mae (T’Keyah Crystal Keyman) in The Gilded Six Bits

TDR:    … and what had to be forgiven … who could do it …

BM:    Exactly. Hurston takes on the power of forgiveness. People told me post-screening that a whole lot of midwives saved a whole lot of marriages. It’s Zora’s genius, really. I went back and forth through the story with calendars to figure out who fathered that baby but I realized Hurston regards love and family to be more important than betrayal.

TDR:    Were you guarded in your interpretation of the story for the screen?

BM:    I did not want to offend her fans! I plaid close attention to Zora’s voice as I read her. I wanted to “hear” her voice on the screen. At the film’s screening, I was holding my breath. Judging from the audience’s reactions, I gathered that I was true to her vision of the story and the message she wanted the audiences to take away from it.

… it doesn’t matter where you go to film school just learn the business. Learn the craft. Learn the culture–that’s equally important.

TDR:    National Black Child Development Institute recognized Unsigned Hype. To that recognition you stated, “I am called to uplift, encourage and challenge readers, but to do it in a way that is morally and ethically responsible. As a media professional, I am acutely aware of the power that media has to introduce and nurture ideas in the minds of young people. And it is these ideas that ultimately shape their worldview.” How do you see your work encouraging and uplifting your readers and viewers?

BM:     My work encourages and uplifts by examining dark and disturbing aspects of who we are but providing a triumphant and uplifting ending that builds people up … that offers up hope at the end of day …

TDR:    You earned an M.F.A. from the Tisch School of the Arts, after earning your Bachelor’s from Norfolk State University in Virginia. So you are credentialed in filmmaking. There are plenty filmmakers – successful filmmakers — who are making films without the formal college degree. How important do you deem formal education in the visual arts? Is it necessary?

BM:     No. it is not necessary. There are far too many people who are successful without the formal degree but it is helpful. Tisch has a conservatory environment, and I absolutely needed to be in a culture and setting that catered strictly to people who aspired to become filmmakers and/or already were working in the field. Formal education, I do believe, is beneficial but it is expensive! You can be so starry-eyed about a school but the financial debt has to be weighed in the decision. If you decide to go, it doesn’t matter where you go to film school just learn the business. Learn the craft. Learn the culture–that’s equally important.

Booker T. Mattison currently is Associate Professor of Film Studies at Hampton University in Virginia. For more information on Mattison visit http://www.bookertmattison.com.  

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Ryan Grovey, MIXXEDFIT National Trainer (photo courtesy of Dee Bernal)

Ryan Grovey currently is a National Trainer for MIXXEDFIT, a popular group fitness program founded by Lori Chung out of her studio Dojo 3 in the greater Washington state area. Want to know more about Ryan Grovey? Read The Interview.

TDR: Ryan, you are living your passion as a National Trainer with MIXXEDFIT. You exude joy for the dance in each video and/or picture you post with trainees and the founder, Lori Chung. No one can miss your enthusiasm for what you do! Thank you for taking time out of your schedule to talk with me. Let us start with some insight into life before MIXXEDFIT. Tell us something about your parents.

RG: My mother, Patricia Yvonne Grovey, and my father Trenedy [“Trent”] Schavaz Grovey graduated from Oklahoma State. They moved to New Mexico after they married. My father, a petroleum engineer, found work in oil there. My mother stayed home for a while but she dreamed of working with children. She worked in banking but later she founded her own non-profit agency which includes four early childhood facilities that serve over 500 low-income children and their families as well.

TDR: What an impressive bio sketch of your parents; we will learn more about them later. For now, let’s move into a discussion of your passion for dance fitness.

As I danced during that demo with the MIXXEDFIT instructor, I was like OMG! This is what I need in my life! The door has opened. This is my new beginning!

RG: I’ll begin with school. In junior high I played basketball and football; I excelled in both. I knew early that academics were it, though. In 10^th grade, something changed: I felt like I really wanted to do strictly academics.

TDR: What are “strictly academics”?

RG: I continued to play but I noticed I slowly was walking away from sports. I became involved in student council. I stopped playing sports altogether my senior year because I wanted to be all involved with my class. So, for instance, I was in charge of the senior prom. I worked closely with the principal. Still, I maintained a B average no matter how active I was.

TDR: You have a strong background in sports and academics yet no mention of being a dancer and even taking a dance fitness class during your high school years. When did dance fitness catch your attention?

RG: Well, my mother organized some fitness classes at her facility and I always participated in them with her. I would dance around the house. I wasn’t trained but I loved to dance! My friends would tell me all the time that I was a good dancer. I did teach a hip-hop class to young adults once but dance fitness or dance fitness as an industry … I just was not aware of an industry …

TDR: So, after high school …

RG: I enrolled in New Mexico State University. I don’t know why but during one of my trips home my mother suggested to me to take a Zumba fitness class already happening at her place of business. Let me pause for a moment to say something about my mother: She is my heart. If not for my mother, I would not be where I am today.

TDR: What a lovely homage to your mother …

RG: Thank you. She is my best friend! Well, I was home for Christmas, and I tried the Zumba classes at one of mom’s facilities. I absolutely fell in love with Zumba!

TDR: Zumba is your first intro to dance fitness after the Hip Hop class you taught?

RG: Yes. It was. I borrowed my mom’s Zumba DVD’s, and practiced the routines with my roommates when I returned to college after Christmas break. That summer, I took Zumba the whole time I was home. My mother noticed my moves. “You have a talent!” she said. She told me that I was super good, and encouraged me to become an instructor. I thought she was crazy! But she and I, along with two other staff members, registered for Zumba Instructor training held in Albuquerque. I received my certification June 2009 at the age of 19!

TDR: Did you start teaching right away after your certification in Zumba?

RG: Yes, but it was kind of sad because my father passed away in May 2009—a month before my Zumba certification. He really didn’t get to see my success! He sees it now, though!

TDR: Would he have supported this endeavor?

RG: Sure! Even though his thing was sports, my dad would have supported anything I was passionate about. He was a basketball and track star in high school in Duncan, Oklahoma. He was state champion in track and was all district in basketball and football. He enrolled me in sports camps, and he always encouraged me from the sidelines.

My goal is to change lives. For just one hour, I give my all to my students. You never know what is going on with anyone, and that’s why I teach to make a difference.

TDR: You were brought up by talented and focused parents who for certain inspired your own interests. Your mother is an entrepreneur; your father, was an athlete, an engineer, and an actor. Both parents were political activists—your mother still is politically aware. I am curious about what particular lessons you learned from them.

RG: My parents instilled in my sister and me an appreciation for discipline, practice, and hard work! My father said, “I want to make sure that you are successful”, and he did. My sister is an anesthesiologist. I opened my business at the age of 20. Mom and dad really invested in our futures and made sure to grow our confidence.

TDR: It’s your first class teaching as a Zumba instructor. How did that feel?

RG: I was so nervous!! My girlfriend was there. I was freaking out just from the nerves! That class was a success, though, and it gave me confidence to develop as an instructor and grow my business. I started expanding like crazy! I taught at a nutrition spot on a patio—pretty ghetto but I did it! I taught at all of the gyms in Las Cruces, New Mexico. I co-taught with a cheerleader from Hobbs High. I even taught it to my Kappa Sigma frats. As my reputation grew, people encouraged me to open my own studio, and I did! My grandfather and my mom supported me through everything.

TDR: How did you grow your business?

RG: Word of mouth! People felt I brought so much joy to my dancing; they loved my teaching style. My classes were packed. Before I knew it, I was in high demand in the city of Las Cruces. People told their friends! After a while, I wanted to be more than just a Zumba instructor; I wanted to go higher.

TDR: What is “higher” in the Zumba organization of instructors?

RG: The Zumba Jammer.* I applied in 2011 but I didn’t make it. Everyone was shocked. I was like ‘whatever’ because, really, I felt I needed to push harder. The second round 2013 I made it.

TDR: What contributed to your success the second time around?

RG: Well, it helped that the organization outlined exactly what they wanted to see in the audition. I was glad I made it because the training provided at the Zumba Jammer level helped me in my development as a dance fitness instructor.

TDR: You resigned as a Zumba Jammer in 2014, but in January 2015, you danced right into MIXXEDFIT. What drew you to this particular program?

RG: A Zumba instructor in one of my Jam sessions asked if I would host a MIXXEDFIT demo in Las Cruces. I made it happen. As I danced during that demo with the MIXXEDFIT instructor, I was like OMG! This is what I need in my life! The door has opened. This is my new beginning! I determined right then and there to host a MIXXEDFIT Instructor certification. I also determined that no one else but the CEO Lori Chung was going to do our certification. I personally contacted Lori, and after a lot of convincing she agreed to come.

MIXXEDFIT music uses only American Top 40 music and yesterday’s hits; we are not Asian-, Latin-, African-inspired … and our moves? Our moves are explosive! They are huge and powerful! These are the features of MIXXEDFIT that separate our program from all others.

Ryan with MIXXED FIT founder and CEO Lori Chung

TDR: How does Lori Chung fuel your enthusiasm for MIXXEDFIT?

RG: She is people inspired! I appreciate her passion, commitment, and hard work for growing MIXXEDFIT. She personally invests in her instructors and her national trainers. She promotes our workshops through the MIXXEDFIT page. The personal development? Outstanding! Many group fitness programs do not offer this kind of attention to its instructors and trainers.

TDR: Your mother saw something in you and encouraged you to become a Zumba instructor. Lori saw something in you, and brought you on board as a MIXXEDFIT National Trainer. What affect does the belief your mother and Lori have on you?

RG: Their belief in me strengthened my own belief in myself. My mother … see … I watched the process she went through to own her early childcare business. Her determination … her discipline—all of her strength let me know I can do it too! As for Lori–Lori respected my talent. She asked me about my own vision … my own desires, and went about seeing how these could be brought about. My career as a dance fitness instructor started in MIXXEDFIT, and I know that was due to Lori personally seeing my performance, energy, and talent during the certification training. People would say to me always “Ryan you should be on those [Zumba Fitness] videos” but I never had that chance. I am in MIXXEDFIT training videos now.

TDR: Was the switch from Zumba to MIXXEDFIT a smooth one?

RG: I think so. Mom had all faith in me, yes, but she advised me to be cautious in my transition from being a Zumba Jammer to becoming a MIXXEDFIT National Trainer. She did see I had more opportunities with MIXXEDFIT that I did not have through Zumba but she understood the business side of things. Everything worked out nicely, really well.

TDR: MIXXEDFIT and Zumba are both dance fitness formats whereby the common denominator is choreographed dance. What are the particular differences?

RG: MIXXEDFIT music uses only American Top 40 music and yesterday’s hits; we are not Asian-, Latin-, African-inspired … and our moves? Our moves are explosive! They are huge and powerful! These are the features of MIXXEDFIT that separate our program from all others.

TDR: How are you using MIXXEDFIT in the community:

RG: My goal is to change lives. For just one hour, I give my all to my students. You never know what is going on with anyone and that’s why I teach to make a difference.

TDR: What are some of your personal goals outside of MIXXEDFIT?

RG: Just to have enough of my own personal wealth where I can be free! I’m in no hurry. Eventually I will have a family with about like eight kids! My mom is like “I want a grandchild!”

But right now, I am living life to the fullest! I am living my dream … I am living Ryan!

To learn more about Ryan, visit him on Facebook and Instagram. For more information on MIXXEDFIT and its mission statement, how to become an instructor, to bring MIXXEDFIT to your city, local events, find a class, and to purchase MIXXEDFIT gear, visit http://www.mixxedfit.com. To meet the founder Lori Chung, visit www.mixxedfit.com/lori-chung.

*A Zumba Jammer (ZJ) … specializes in Zumba choreography and … provide[s] ZIN Members with new choreography routines to integrate into their Zumba classes. (Zumba.com)

Mabel Robinson as Billie in the film Cotton Comes to Harlem

Mabel Robinson. Her artistic skill has made possible opportunities to perform across the genres of dance, theater, film, and television as an actress, director, choreographer, and instructor. She has performed professionally with distinguished companies such as the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater, the Martha Graham Dance Company, the Juilliard Dance Theatre, and the Hava Kohav Dancers. Ben Vereen, Barbra Streisand, Diana Ross, Carol Burnett, among other actors and personalities, have shared the stage with her. You may remember, however, her intense interpretative dance scene in the film Cotton Comes to Harlem (1970), directed by the late actor/director Ossie Davis.

Gerald Hirschfeld’s cinematography in Cotton Comes To Harlem guides the audience to myriad locales throughout the city; one place is Harlem’s famed Apollo Theater. Here, in this hallowed space of African American entertainment, Ms. Robinson (Billie), costumed in full slave regalia, advances the story with burlesque panache to George Tipson’s song Cotton Comes to Harlem. Her dance on top of the bale of cotton that came to Harlem not only entertains, the performance, also, informs audiences of the African American journey from the southern cotton fields to the concrete jungle of the northern urban city.

Ms. Robinson has enjoyed a rich and varied career both on and off screen. It is no surprise. My interview with her brings to relief an artist who respects and honors her craft. This is a story about her sheer love for her talents and abilities, and how this love requires not only practice, focus, and discipline, but also it needs patience, and the right mentors and teachers to fertilize the ground for its growth. Correspondingly, Ms. Robinson makes known the choices an artist has to make when life intervenes and changes the course of direction.

TDR:  How did you nurture your desire for the performing arts?

MR:    My nurture of the arts began when I was an infant—or so I have been told. I loved to dance, according to my grandmother. She told me when she turned on the radio, I would pull up on the crib and jump for hours. She said that’s how she could get her laundry done!

TDR:  So, this nurture came from within your home.

MR:    Yes! My mom was a single parent. Mom went to New York to get a better job. She left us with grandmother in Savannah, Georgia where I was born. When she found a job, she came back for my sister and me. Whatever I did, I had to be the best. My mother said I had to be.

TDR:  You talk of your mother with pride …

MR:    My mom was a very determined and focused person—always. She was a seamstress who tailored men’s clothes; she made the muslin cloth patterns for clothes. Later she went to work at this company and became their bookkeeper; she ended up becoming an accountant. She didn’t finish high school until I finished college, but the way she attacked things–the way she finished things–it made people admire her ability to be such a perfectionist without having the book learning. Then she enrolled in college courses. In essence, my mother guided me to look and move beyond the norm.

TDR:  Were there other men and/or women who encouraged your love for the arts?MR:    Vereda Pearson, a little short black woman who played the piano, was a teacher in the public schools in New York who taught after school in the community center. Well, mom and Ms. Pearson became really good friends. She taught her students to articulate, to learn opera … she worked with [vaudeville actor and the first Black comedian to ever appear in the cinema] Bert Williams, so she had an awful lot to give to us. She was theater for me in a sense.

When you’re 11 and 12 years old you’re trying to get into your own, and she did not allow us let up. She said “there will be no insecurities here!” Her guidance helped me a great deal to be nurtured as far as the arts was concerned.

TDR:  From the crib to the community center, the arts seemingly followed you. Discuss your high school years.

MR:    I entered the High School of Performing Arts. When I enrolled I hadn’t had much technical training. The one thing I did have, though, was the love for dance. I remember I was a week late getting to school because our car broke down. At registration, all of the modern dance classes were filled so I had to go to the ballet classes. Blacks were discouraged from ballet, so luckily I only had to do half year of ballet before I became a double major. This meant having equal classes in ballet and modern techniques. The modern technique allowed me more freedom of movement. Ballet is a highly disciplined genre, and the learning of it, as far as freedom of movement … it’s restricting. The dancer, then, has to have the discipline to get her body to do what she wants it to do.

The most important things any person interested in the arts must do is have a respect for the discipline, learn to be professional, and learn to work for quality. On the whole, the arts take discipline but the artist has to make it look like magic.

TDR:  You mention that blacks were discouraged from ballet. Growing up I remember hearing the reason was the African American body could not express the kinds of movements ballet required. Why the discouragement?

MR:    The ballet establishment believed the African American body could not accommodate the discipline of ballet because we were built with a curvature, had large buttocks, and flat feet–of course you can build up the feet up to stand on point.

TDR:  Yet, in spite of that belief, there are African American ballet dancers …

Janet Collins, Prima Ballerina

MR:    Janet Collins was the first notable African American ballet dancer in America. Later, [African American dancer and choreographer] Arthur Mitchell challenged these notions about the Black body and ballet. He established The Dance Theater of Harlem, and it is all ballet, even children doing ballet. Louis Johnson, who was the person that I worked with a lot, came [from Statesville, North Carolina] to D.C. He later went to dance with the New York City School of American Ballet and performed with the New York City Ballet. Now, Misty Copeland is a shining example that deletes the statement about Black dancers and ballet.

TDR:  You are a graduate of the High School for Performing Arts and Juilliard School of Music. That you attended these schools leads me to believe that you were/are a very focused and talented individual who knew exactly what she wanted to do.

MR:    The arts always have been a saving grace for me. Dancing is not only about steps or being musical or having a high kick. No. I found that I must be able to tell stories or to “talk” through my movements. When you first work with individuals, I observed they don’t necessarily embrace that approach, so I searched for those who allowed me to do that.

TDR:  Why the dance?

MR:    Dancing was something I had to hold on to; it made me feel good; it made people like me. Those feelings and emotions are important to me.

TDR:  You have performed on Broadway and in film and television. How important do you believe education is when it comes to performing? Is it necessary? Why?

MR:    The most important things any person interested in the arts must do is have a respect for the discipline, learn to be professional, and learn to work for quality. On the whole, the arts take discipline but the artist has to make it look like magic. So, performance, in the eye of the public, is magical. As for the formal degree, it is up to the individual. People do not think about the hard knocks; they only think of the end result. But you asked about education. I think education is important. It establishes a “fit-in” … how you fit … education continues … It’s not only book education, it is also social–how you deal with people and their energies. Hopefully you are studying what it is that you want to do in the future …

The arts always have been a saving grace for me. Dancing is not only about steps or being musical or having a high kick. No. I found that I must be able to tell stories or to “talk” through my movements.

TDR:  When cast in a show, how do you prepare for your character?

MR:    Characters, I think, are extensions of yourself; however, certain things you may not have experienced in life can be projected through your character. When this is realized, the performer has to research and get the information. Then the information has to be interpreted by the performer to establish a frame for that character. If the role has been done or established, the performer still has to make it her own.

TDR:  You are a dancer and a choreographer. In what ways do you prepare your instrument (the body) to be ready for a performance? (i.e., eating habits, exercise, etc.).

MR:    I was very fortunate because of my eating habits; diet is very important. I have a temple and I have to keep it moving. Not only do I deal with nurturing or taking care of my body, I have to eat well. My body tells me what to have and what not to eat. The minute you abuse your body you will get hurt. You have to prepare your body because the body was not built to dance so to speak but you train the body to do those things … you have to warm it up; that’s why athletes, to continue to do what they do, have to warm up and stretch …

TDR:  You participated in the era in film history called Blaxploitation, and the title caused a political backlash by those who filmmaker Melvin van Peebles sarcastically called “the black intelligentsia”. This backlash contributed to the nadir of the era. What are your thoughts on the title of that era and this backlash?

MR:    People became embarrassed and/or hurt by that name. You know, I don’t know whether it was a backlash. It was an era that gave black artists an opportunity to work. During the period I was so happy that there was work for black artists. [The studio heads] had to determine what was going to sell–what was commercial. Because of [director] Ossie Davis’s high respect for theater as was his wife Ruby’s, all of that went into his film work. As a director [of Cotton Comes to Harlem], he demanded excellent artists. He demanded good producers who respected his artistic opinions. As with anything else, if you lose respect for the craft and you are just going for one goal—the money–then you have to deal with the consequences.

TDR:  Do you feel that the the Blaxploitation era was a productive one in terms of the kinds of images, stories, fashion, and dialogue it produced during that time?

Mabel Robinson as Billie

MR:    Blaxploitation gave us a transition from the intensity of the 1960s. For some it became their lifestyles; a lot of people didn’t know where they wanted to go so the images influenced them in myriad ways.

TDR:  How did you come to be involved in Cotton Comes to Harlem? What was your reaction when you were cast in the movie?

MR:    I felt wonderful because I knew Raymond St. Jacques. He suggested that I audition for the part.

TDR:  The theater scene in Cotton Comes to Harlem is very poignant. There are so many historical registers that are performed: blackface, gospel, dance, the bale of cotton …

MR:    That theater scene upheld the points of the civil rights movement; it kept a certain respect. It made us uphold a certain respect. It showcased the plight of black people through history even with the white man coming entering the stage in blackface — there were a lot of teaching moments in there, yes.

TDR:  Your dance is what takes the audience through those historical registers. Discuss your dance choreography. How did you come up with the theme? What did you hope to accomplish during the routine?

MR:    I should note that Ossie Davis hired me as an actress—not as a dancer because he did not know that I could dance. It was a collaboration as well as an understanding of all creative energies working on the film. Louis Johnson choreographed the scene after Ossie told him what he wanted. I offered to Louis to envision moving through our history within the dance; he said exactly right! We agreed on how we were going to approach the performance. It was only to be 30 seconds but those 30 seconds turned out to be 4 minutes.

TDR:  How was it working with Ossie Davis?

MR:    It was fantastic to work with a director in whom you can find all of the nuances necessary to bring a project to fruition. Ossie not only was an actor, he was a writer as well. He encouraged all actors to try new ways of interpreting characters. I think it was a connection that every one who worked on Cotton Comes to Harlem made. It was a really nice feeling. He had all of those creative energies to put into the film to encourage all actors to go that way or to try something else. I think the connection made by all people in Cotton Comes to Harlem was really a nice feeling.

TDK:  The scene is over, and the director moves on to block other scenes in the film. What are your thoughts?

MR:    Everyone said I did a good job so my performance affirmed something. I felt there was nothing more I could do for that character because it already was notated. Film is not like live theater. In live theater, you have a chance to revise and reinterpret your character every night of a performance.

TDR:  What did you do after Cotton Comes to Harlem?

MR:    I came back to Broadway and continued to dance. I did some assistant directing. Then, in 1972, I had a son so I did some touring but I did not travel out of the country as much. I felt my son needed structure and discipline. I worked in companies that were off-broadway so that I could keep my craft alive and, more important, continue in my discipline. I was fortunate because black theater was alive and booming then. I was very fortunate because I would swing in some of the shows I was cast in.

TDR:  Define ‘Swing’ …

MR:    To ‘swing’ means to learn more than one role. Those actors who could swing were treasures because not everyone can do that. It’s different from being an understudy whereby you learn one role only. So, for instance, in some shows, I would learn all of the female parts so if something happened, I could be in costume and go on stage and play that part.

TDR:  Among other projects, you went on to work in Funny Lady with Barbra Streisand in 1975.

MR:    I had finished [the musical revue] Don’t Bother Me, I Can’t Cope. I took over Hope Clarke’s part in that production, and toured with the show in Canada and San Francisco. Herbie Ross called me to do Funny Lady because I had worked with him in 1963 at the Spoleto Festival [Italy]. Herbie Ross remembered me.

TDR:  What was your experience working with Barbra Streisand?

Ben Vereen (center) and Mabel Robinson (right)

MR:    For me it was the most fun to dance and sing with both Streisand and Ben Vereen. The quality of the [Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie] routine was sort of Ragtime-ish, and it gave me a chance to do a variety of styles. We were kind of Ross’s skeleton crew which took the edge off and gave you a feeling of importance and leadership during the project.

TDR:  You played a munchkin in The Wiz with Diana Ross and Michael Jackson in 1978—two very different movies from those produced during blaxploitation. Discuss your experiences on the set of these movies.

MR:    Well, Funny Lady was a mixed cast; the stars were mixed, too. The Wiz caught on. Sidney Lumet, a white director, signed on to direct the movie with Diana Ross as its lead. This production gave me the chance to explore my knowledge as a choreographer as I worked on big group production numbers. I was assistant choreographer in that movie and responsible for the choreography performed by Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, and Ted Ross; I would learn their routines. Louis Johnson and I had to be in contact with all of the stars, the dancers, and the models.

TDR:  What are some of your thoughts on the entertainment industry today?

 MR:    I strongly believe that we must keep Black Theater going! Collaborations in theater are so important. If we can just think about opening ourselves up to the possibilities, there will be a great future for the arts. I am glad to see that the young people are so free and doing what they do and how they do; however, I wish that they would take the time to see where it came from. Some do.

TDR: So history plays an important role in theater …

MR:    Those who do not take time to look at the history fall short. I believe that if you just research where you came from–even though you did not come of age during that time– you can learn. I am trusting that there are enough of young people who will understand the history of their art to get a full picture of what is happening politically in the arts; to gain a sense of how things connect. I try to teach my students that, and there are about six of them who are writing their own scripts and doing the big productions.

TDR:  Why did you decide to become an artistic director and instructor?

MR:    First thing, the body starts to break down. Personally, I became limited as a dancer and, on top of that, I had to consider what was necessary for my son and me. Also, I had to find a way to continue to hone my craft. What is more, there were challenges to living in New York City. So, I moved to Winston-Salem, North Carolina to work for Twin City Stage Theater; I started the musical theater department. I went into churches and universities and found so much talent to cast! As I worked with these individuals, I realized that I just wanted to direct and choreograph. In 2007, Larry [Leon Hamlin, the Artistic Director] passed away, and the board asked if I would assume the role at the North Carolina Black Repertory Company.

TDR:  Now, you have retired! Why?

MR:    As far as my retirement, it is my 77^th birthday present to myself. If I couldn’t do things that I have been trying to catch up on because I didn’t have enough time … commitments at work require me to be there all time, and I feel obligated to carry them out. I try to respond and help the community out as much as possible.

TDR:  Do you have some projects in the works now?

MR:    Yes I do. I have a ballet called Mother’s Tree which is a tribute to my mother and grandmother; it really covers about 3 generations. I want to convert that into a play. It has been successful as a ballet because all of my work has a strong movement background. With that experience, I could see it as a play or an operatta; I could use spoken word. Also, at this stage of my life, I am trying to do different things. Companies have asked me to come and create some projects but I could not when I was working. My friends warn me that once people know I have retired many projects will come my way. Now, I have a choice to at least be able to tell them “I can do it. Let’s try it!” At least I am able to say I have the time …